Brava, my friend! And, please let me know if you'd consider mentoring a woman I met who's working on her PhD and writing a memoir about home. I think you'd be a wonderful connection for her.
Gosh, that’s really awful to have had that experience. While, I have not had that sexual abuse experience with men, I will say that one of the lessons my mother tried to instill in me growing up, is that a woman must never do anything to make a man uncomfortable. And as you pointed out, it is the worst lesson. Fortunately I totally rejected this lesson. Ive seen the surprise on a few mens faces at the blow up scene I’ve made when men mistook me for someone who wouldn’t make them uncomfortable. And I’ve seen the horror on my mothers face when I stand my ground to an aggressive male and force him to yield ground to me. I’ve even had my mother side with the male in her humiliation that he was made “small” in front of her. I’ve even considered writing a course and building curriculum to address this because I see women getting bullied by men constantly. As women we are supposed to smile, nod and be agreeable. It’s bullshit.
Wow, Jennifer, it's pretty amazing that you were able to sidestep the message from your mom, and from our culture. Girls need more role models like you. My mother was strong and vocal but she also had both of her husbands cheat on her and her parents wouldn't tell their friends that she was divorced until she had married her second. She stood up to men in the church all the time, but she also worked in a "man's world" and there she played along in order to be accepted.
I hope you'll give more consideration to creating a course around this. Something for Community College, open to the public. Depending on how you frame it, men might attend as well as women. We need an expansive multi-pronged approach to truly change this in our culture.
Hi Jan! I would venture mostly all of us have experienced a lot of sick shit. And we SHOULD talk about it. To name it is to tame it, as Brene Brown says. I wanted to make your shame vaporize--because posting that opened an important discussion. Thank you!!!
Thank you, Liz. I don't feel shame about it now, but it was a long haul getting here.
I think you are correct that mostly all women have experienced something wrong or sick, as you say. If a female was lucky to not have experienced it as a girl, as an adult there was bound to be something. It is so ingrained in us, however, that often women don't realize it. Suggestive comments? aw, that's just how guys are. This is how we could have a president who said awful things about women and even talk about dating his daughter and folks just accepted it. Releasing the shame, introducing boundaries, and finding my voice has allowed me to feel anger - anger that is justified that moves me forward. Yet clearly, as demonstrated by the email fiasco, I still don't want to alienate anyone. Speaking about this rationally will hopefully move more people towards understanding than my ranting would.
Hi Jan, I’m glad you wrote this. To be honest, I was very confused about why you felt so terrible about the other Substack post from Womaning in India being accidentally shared. I actually thought it was a good thing that it reached so many more people. ❤️
As a woman, and a mother of two girls, I have always walked in fear. The streets are not safe, the darkness is terrifying, lonely places are frightening but so are crowds. My girls, growing up, used to rail against my caution - text me when you leave school, text me when you get the bus, text me when you reach your friend’s house, don’t walk home alone at night...and so on. Today they agree and understand the need for it, and even though we are a continent apart, they let me know - we’re out tonight, we’re home safely again.
It should not be like this. Mothers and daughters should be able to sleep in peace without such worry. But it has always been so, and I don’t see it changing anytime soon.
You spoke of immigrants. I have lived in the U.K. now for 26 years. I know more about this country’s literature and history, folklore and customs, than most ‘native’ English. But I also know I will never be accepted as belonging here, no matter what. Only yesterday I was told by a woman who invited herself over to my house that I couldn’t possibly understand the Holocaust because I was not ‘from here’. She then went on to tell me how upset she gets when people tell her that British colonialism was bad because after all, her grandfather was a District Commissioner in pre-independent India and he ‘loved’ India. I am sure he did, all slave owners love their exploitative lifestyles. She took my breath away with her assumptions. She was in her 70s and rather frail, so out of respect for her age I did not argue. Another woman, also while sitting on my sofa, wondered at the ‘mispronounciation’ of Sanskrit words by Indians. She knew better of course, simply by virtue of being English. It makes me angry, and it makes me feel unsafe, insecure in a country I have lived in for 26 years. But these are the attitudes here that I run into so casually. So is it any wonder I still can’t call this country home?
oh wow. Rohini, there is so much here in what you've written. The legitimate fear of a woman and as a mother of daughters. That even across the ocean, they know to stay in touch. And truly, if they had never experienced anything themselves, if they didn't have first-hand experience with the dangers of being a woman, I suspect that by this age they would have brushed off your concerns and would not make sure to alert you about their comings and goings. This says so much.
And your experience as an immigrant to the U.K. - I am sure this is common. The ignorance and superiority, the judgement, the false assumptions. You have been there 26 years and are such a learned, accomplished woman and still this happens! Would you be willing to write an essay on this? Something I can publish here on Finding Home? Something that perhaps details the alienation and offense you mention here and also explains why you immigrated and have remained? And perhaps, how/where you DO find home even in the midst of categorically not fitting in? Please consider. I really would like to hear more and I believe others would too.
When I was a few months short of twelve, I went to visit my best friend in an apartment building in NYC. A totally harmless looking teenage boy entered the self-service elevator after me. As soon as the door closed, he grabbed me and made me go up to the stairwell just inside the door to the roof. He opened his fly and told me to stand with my back to him and rub his penis. There's a lot to say about this thing happening to me, but the most remarkable part remains that a year later I met a girl in summer camp who had had the identical experience with someone who was clearly the same boy in the same neighborhood. That was stunning.
Susie, this is very similar to my experiences as well. Thank you for sharing. As shocking as it is to hear these things, it's helps me and others to know we are not unique and not alone.
Did this effect you visiting your friend in the future? Were you more hesitant to get into the elevator? Or less likely to visit? Did you ever tell anyone about it when it happened?
I did have an aversion to those closed spaces like self-service elevators. On the whole, I didn't talk about it...but I must have told the girl in camp because we had a shared story with the same perpetrator.
There are many women who don’t want us to tell our stories. These stories mean that their beloved husbands, fathers, sons and brothers could also be perpetrators. And for some women that is more difficult to bear than the horrifying truth of the experience. We saw this with the #metoo movement. Very sad.
Thank you for this great essay, Jan. The phrase that jumped out for me was "not making a scene." Yup, that was me. That's how I was trained from an early age. Don't make waves, do not under any circumstances offend an adult. Or defy an adult. And when you are an adult yourself, then do not offend the adult who is older than you, even if he's a colleague twice your age and making a pass at you. As if a woman's emotions were somehow vulgar and her having agency presumptuous. It's like playing dead.
Thank you Claudia for this affirmation. Do not offend an adult (male, in particular). I needed to hear I wasn’t the only one who perceived this message as a kid.
Brava, my friend! And, please let me know if you'd consider mentoring a woman I met who's working on her PhD and writing a memoir about home. I think you'd be a wonderful connection for her.
Of course, I'd be happy to talk with her! Please feel free to share my contact info.
Dragonflies know what's up
Gosh, that’s really awful to have had that experience. While, I have not had that sexual abuse experience with men, I will say that one of the lessons my mother tried to instill in me growing up, is that a woman must never do anything to make a man uncomfortable. And as you pointed out, it is the worst lesson. Fortunately I totally rejected this lesson. Ive seen the surprise on a few mens faces at the blow up scene I’ve made when men mistook me for someone who wouldn’t make them uncomfortable. And I’ve seen the horror on my mothers face when I stand my ground to an aggressive male and force him to yield ground to me. I’ve even had my mother side with the male in her humiliation that he was made “small” in front of her. I’ve even considered writing a course and building curriculum to address this because I see women getting bullied by men constantly. As women we are supposed to smile, nod and be agreeable. It’s bullshit.
Wow, Jennifer, it's pretty amazing that you were able to sidestep the message from your mom, and from our culture. Girls need more role models like you. My mother was strong and vocal but she also had both of her husbands cheat on her and her parents wouldn't tell their friends that she was divorced until she had married her second. She stood up to men in the church all the time, but she also worked in a "man's world" and there she played along in order to be accepted.
I hope you'll give more consideration to creating a course around this. Something for Community College, open to the public. Depending on how you frame it, men might attend as well as women. We need an expansive multi-pronged approach to truly change this in our culture.
Anyway, thanks for sharing and writing about things that matter. Thanks for the encouragement about the classes.
Hi Jan! I would venture mostly all of us have experienced a lot of sick shit. And we SHOULD talk about it. To name it is to tame it, as Brene Brown says. I wanted to make your shame vaporize--because posting that opened an important discussion. Thank you!!!
Thank you, Liz. I don't feel shame about it now, but it was a long haul getting here.
I think you are correct that mostly all women have experienced something wrong or sick, as you say. If a female was lucky to not have experienced it as a girl, as an adult there was bound to be something. It is so ingrained in us, however, that often women don't realize it. Suggestive comments? aw, that's just how guys are. This is how we could have a president who said awful things about women and even talk about dating his daughter and folks just accepted it. Releasing the shame, introducing boundaries, and finding my voice has allowed me to feel anger - anger that is justified that moves me forward. Yet clearly, as demonstrated by the email fiasco, I still don't want to alienate anyone. Speaking about this rationally will hopefully move more people towards understanding than my ranting would.
Thank you for your solidarity and support!
Hi Jan, I’m glad you wrote this. To be honest, I was very confused about why you felt so terrible about the other Substack post from Womaning in India being accidentally shared. I actually thought it was a good thing that it reached so many more people. ❤️
As a woman, and a mother of two girls, I have always walked in fear. The streets are not safe, the darkness is terrifying, lonely places are frightening but so are crowds. My girls, growing up, used to rail against my caution - text me when you leave school, text me when you get the bus, text me when you reach your friend’s house, don’t walk home alone at night...and so on. Today they agree and understand the need for it, and even though we are a continent apart, they let me know - we’re out tonight, we’re home safely again.
It should not be like this. Mothers and daughters should be able to sleep in peace without such worry. But it has always been so, and I don’t see it changing anytime soon.
You spoke of immigrants. I have lived in the U.K. now for 26 years. I know more about this country’s literature and history, folklore and customs, than most ‘native’ English. But I also know I will never be accepted as belonging here, no matter what. Only yesterday I was told by a woman who invited herself over to my house that I couldn’t possibly understand the Holocaust because I was not ‘from here’. She then went on to tell me how upset she gets when people tell her that British colonialism was bad because after all, her grandfather was a District Commissioner in pre-independent India and he ‘loved’ India. I am sure he did, all slave owners love their exploitative lifestyles. She took my breath away with her assumptions. She was in her 70s and rather frail, so out of respect for her age I did not argue. Another woman, also while sitting on my sofa, wondered at the ‘mispronounciation’ of Sanskrit words by Indians. She knew better of course, simply by virtue of being English. It makes me angry, and it makes me feel unsafe, insecure in a country I have lived in for 26 years. But these are the attitudes here that I run into so casually. So is it any wonder I still can’t call this country home?
oh wow. Rohini, there is so much here in what you've written. The legitimate fear of a woman and as a mother of daughters. That even across the ocean, they know to stay in touch. And truly, if they had never experienced anything themselves, if they didn't have first-hand experience with the dangers of being a woman, I suspect that by this age they would have brushed off your concerns and would not make sure to alert you about their comings and goings. This says so much.
And your experience as an immigrant to the U.K. - I am sure this is common. The ignorance and superiority, the judgement, the false assumptions. You have been there 26 years and are such a learned, accomplished woman and still this happens! Would you be willing to write an essay on this? Something I can publish here on Finding Home? Something that perhaps details the alienation and offense you mention here and also explains why you immigrated and have remained? And perhaps, how/where you DO find home even in the midst of categorically not fitting in? Please consider. I really would like to hear more and I believe others would too.
When I was a few months short of twelve, I went to visit my best friend in an apartment building in NYC. A totally harmless looking teenage boy entered the self-service elevator after me. As soon as the door closed, he grabbed me and made me go up to the stairwell just inside the door to the roof. He opened his fly and told me to stand with my back to him and rub his penis. There's a lot to say about this thing happening to me, but the most remarkable part remains that a year later I met a girl in summer camp who had had the identical experience with someone who was clearly the same boy in the same neighborhood. That was stunning.
Susie, this is very similar to my experiences as well. Thank you for sharing. As shocking as it is to hear these things, it's helps me and others to know we are not unique and not alone.
Did this effect you visiting your friend in the future? Were you more hesitant to get into the elevator? Or less likely to visit? Did you ever tell anyone about it when it happened?
I did have an aversion to those closed spaces like self-service elevators. On the whole, I didn't talk about it...but I must have told the girl in camp because we had a shared story with the same perpetrator.
It's good that you were able to share with the girl at camp at least.
If we all told our stories...goodness. The fury/power that would be released.
So true.
There are many women who don’t want us to tell our stories. These stories mean that their beloved husbands, fathers, sons and brothers could also be perpetrators. And for some women that is more difficult to bear than the horrifying truth of the experience. We saw this with the #metoo movement. Very sad.
Thank you for this great essay, Jan. The phrase that jumped out for me was "not making a scene." Yup, that was me. That's how I was trained from an early age. Don't make waves, do not under any circumstances offend an adult. Or defy an adult. And when you are an adult yourself, then do not offend the adult who is older than you, even if he's a colleague twice your age and making a pass at you. As if a woman's emotions were somehow vulgar and her having agency presumptuous. It's like playing dead.
Thank you Claudia for this affirmation. Do not offend an adult (male, in particular). I needed to hear I wasn’t the only one who perceived this message as a kid.