Indeed, there is much to learn from relationships that don't last. And, if we are honest, these might be considered successful relationships, even if the outcome was not as we hoped. (Your young daughter is one such success, yes?) Equally, there is much to learn about ourselves INSIDE relationships. Sometimes the only way we learn things about ourselves is under the microscope of our relationships. How we enter, how we exit, and how we are inside.
As for the soulmate, I know you are familiar with Plato's Symposium and, as a myth grad it sounds like the Aristophanes origin story resonates with you.
Thanks for reading and for commenting. It's good to hear from you (and "virtually" see you). I hope you'll stay tuned for future posts in this series on marriage.
I’ve always felt like a whole, complete person. I’ve never cared if I had a traditional marriage or kids. The first time I got married it was in a state of total grief after my father died. It was a huge mistake. The 2nd time, we were both on a horse when we met each other. We are both avid equestrians and I liked his witty humor. He was well read, cerebral, and had lived all over the world. He was 51 and had never been married. 19 years later it is still a work in progress. We, too, are both curious. We spend a lot of time asking questions and looking for answers.
Jennifer, I didn't realize you had been married before Tom - and married after your father died. I did the same. For me, it was not a mistake but it was absolutely a response to losing my father and expecting my spouse to take that place. I hope to talk about that a bit in a future marriage post.
Congratulations on 19 years! It's not easy and it does take constant work - even when we admire, respect, and are well suited with our beloved. And this, too, is something we don't talk about enough. We tend to think of marriage as a destination that is reached at the wedding and it's blue skies from there. In reality, it's one heck of a journey! Arduous and amazing, frustrating and fulfilling, and so much more.
Like this one ❤️ my god friend 🥰. I have Been Marrid with my wife for 35 years now and i am thankfull for evry day 🥰💐❤️
Not easy to Explain , but i maybe remember to tell her almost evry day that i Love her and just that i am thankfull for her evry day and do my best inn my part of this M and dont Expekt to Munch b 😁.
Give more than you exp b. 🥰🤩😉
It is good to have A partner ❤️🥰 , but its possible to have a good life with good friends and family 🥰
Sorry for my bad writing 🇳🇴, but hope you understand 😆
Congratulations on 35 years, old friend! You have always been a kind, gentle, and patient man and I am sure this comes through in your marriage. You also had done a bit of exploring in the world (which is how we met) and so you were clear about what you wanted and needed, as well as who you were and what you brought to the relationship.
Don’t expect too much. Be happy. Give more than you expect. = All great advice!! 🧡🔆
My first marriage was a disaster, but I have two beautiful children because of it. After my divorce, I was a bit despondent. I remember talking to God one morning--I was 32 and felt like used goods. Who would want me? And would I want someone who also had “baggage?” I asked God to send me someone who would serve Him alongside me. I know that sounds like a crazy prayer, but I asked and He delivered.
Mike and I have been married 14 years. We had similar experiences in our first marriages, so we both understood the same hurt. His personality is very different from mine, but enjoy doing some of the same things. We have to step back and regroup sometimes when we don’t seem to be on the same page, but I think what makes us work is that we understand what a gift this relationship is and we are thankful for each other. It makes it easier to get over the small stuff.
That’s wonderful, Holly. I had a sense that Mike was your second marriage but appreciate you sharing the details. And yes, your two children make your first marriage a success, even if it didn’t have the outcome you hoped for. Even divorce can be a success. You probably learned much about yourself during those years that still serves you well. And perhaps made you a better mother.
Tell me, how old were you when you married the first time? Looking back, do you think it would’ve helped if you were older?
I've been blessed with more than my share of girlfriends over my life and only once considered marrying. And that didn't work out anyway, to my good fortune as well as hers.
Thanks for responding, Mark. You actually touch on something I want to talk about in another post in this series. Which is, do you have to live with your spouse? Seems unconventional (even unimaginable) to many but for me, it makes perfect sense. Many couples live in separate bedrooms, why not separate homes? The other part of this (that I will explore more as well) is the need for our solitude. As someone who REALLY enjoys my own space (probably even requires it like you), I'm not interested in a relationship where we are always together and doing the same things. Kahil Gibran talks about there being spaces in the relationship, like two trees growing in the forest, neither in the other's shadow. And Rilke talks about protecting each other's solitude. And this is why I started this conversation talking about the myth of having an "other half", of someone else making us whole. I think two whole, healthy, mature people can be married without necessarily living together.
I’m a cynical romantic (a romantic cynic?) who believes in love at first sight...while also believing that idea of soulmates is a dangerous and damaging concept. The power of timing and circumstance and chemistry is really what it all comes down to. I could have seen myself in multiple marriage trajectories and most would have turned out pretty fine. The one I’m in (for 15 years) is just the path that happened to make sense to both of us at that time. Yes, there’s magic involved, but also mostly...reality?
I am generally against anyone getting married young--it’s informed by my own experience in an abusive relationship from age 19-21. We were almost engaged and it would have been a terrible mistake. Instead, I waited until the “old” (haha) age of 28 to tie the knot, and looking back at my mindset at age 20 I think it’s impossible to know if you’re making a wise decision or not. However, I recognize that not everyone has the same opinion as I do and I try not to be judgmental about younger marriages. Many do last, but they should be viewed as the exception rather than something to aspire to.
Love is the best thing in the world and I’m confident I’ll continue to have tons of it--romantic and otherwise--until my dying day. But my past experiences remind me (quite often, actually) what it felt like to not have that, and I hope that I’m sensitive to a multitude of perspectives.
Thank you so much for all your thoughts here, Ashleigh! Your first speaks to how, I believe, there is not just ONE person out there for each of us. And the idea of ONE actually can harm us in many ways. And this intersects with marriage at a young age / waiting to marry. To think at 18 or 19 or even 23 that the person we love is the perfect one and only match for us - the one we were "meant" to be with.... Well, they may be the right person FOR THAT TIME, but for the rest of our lives? Likely no. But you can bet I felt that way at that age with my first love. And again at 25 when I did marry. That marriage was a success, even if it did only last 7 years, but precisely b/c we were committed to the best for each other so when the time came to part - as hard as it was - we knew it was for the best. And this is something I'll talk about more later (I think). We all go through a LOT of changes in our lives. I think it's pretty rare to find that person with whom you can stay together even as you both change at different times in different ways - ESPECIALLY if you marry when you're basically still a kid. As you say, it's more the exception than the rule, especially today. All of which is to highlight what is mythology that doesn't serve us vs acknowledging reality (the odds, the statistics) and using that to help us make our best choices. And of course, knowing oneself, what we actually need for our particular personality vs what the culture deems optimal.
Jan, I love that you describe your seven-year marriage a success! We too often are told that there is some sort of "end goal" and if we don't make it then we've failed. That is just not the case! We need more examples like yours of successful marriages that have operated differently. Think of how many people would feel better about themselves and their choices if they could embrace your way of thinking instead of feeling stuck in our society's framework about marriage.
I agree, we go through so many changes in life and finding the person who will be a good fit for you for two years, much less twenty or more, is incredibly challenging! We don't talk about how hard it is to CHOOSE to stay together, each and every day, year over year. I certainly think you should explore this topic more. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you, Ashleigh! I appreciate your solidarity in this thought. Perhaps we just need to talk about this more in order to change the cultural paradigm. And yes, we do NOT talk about marriage enough! I will definitely explore this in future posts and look forward to your input!
Thanks for writing this! I actually learned in therapy recently that i haven’t been looking for a friend or partner all along, I’ve been looking for a parent/caregiver/older sibling (due to not having been taken care of much as a kid). Your essay is a good reminder that eventually I need to learn to take care of myself instead of finding that role in others.
Ah Cherie, I hope you know that you're not alone in this. What sets you apart is that NOW you know and now you can make better choices. I applaud you for the inner work you're doing. Old patterns are hard to change, especially when they were formed from a deficit. And that's why therapy is so helpful. Plus affirmations such as this. Thank you so much for sharing.
Thank you for another wonderful article. You have a darn good voice!
Martha and I have been married for 47 years. When I met her, she was this crazy, wild person that was so different than me, but I knew from day one that she had a heart of gold. I knew I was in very good hands. We were as different as night and day, but we really loved the difference. If people asked us our opinions on just about anything, I'd naturally pick "A" while Martha naturally picked "B", but that helped us broaden our perspectives because we respected what the other felt and believed. Today, we both now naturally answer "AB" in our opinions.
Also, we were so lucky in that my flaws were not that big of a deal to Martha and the same with her flaws for me. We all carry around an array of flaws, so our attitudes made it very easy to cut each other lots of slack with flaws that might have driven others up the wall.
oh Gary, thank you so much for your note! You two are truly role models for all of us. Your respect, admiration, and support of each others is so obvious. Just as important as being able to roll past each other's flaws is how you have been able to grow and evolve. Sometimes together (like dancing), sometimes apart (Martha's recent schooling), but always with the love that wants the best for the other and that, in turn, supports you both. I also love that this growth and acceptance now means you answer AB. A wonderful balance indeed!
Indeed, there is much to learn from relationships that don't last. And, if we are honest, these might be considered successful relationships, even if the outcome was not as we hoped. (Your young daughter is one such success, yes?) Equally, there is much to learn about ourselves INSIDE relationships. Sometimes the only way we learn things about ourselves is under the microscope of our relationships. How we enter, how we exit, and how we are inside.
As for the soulmate, I know you are familiar with Plato's Symposium and, as a myth grad it sounds like the Aristophanes origin story resonates with you.
Thanks for reading and for commenting. It's good to hear from you (and "virtually" see you). I hope you'll stay tuned for future posts in this series on marriage.
Loved this one. Thanks for the food for thought :)
Thanks, Julia!
I’ve always felt like a whole, complete person. I’ve never cared if I had a traditional marriage or kids. The first time I got married it was in a state of total grief after my father died. It was a huge mistake. The 2nd time, we were both on a horse when we met each other. We are both avid equestrians and I liked his witty humor. He was well read, cerebral, and had lived all over the world. He was 51 and had never been married. 19 years later it is still a work in progress. We, too, are both curious. We spend a lot of time asking questions and looking for answers.
Jennifer, I didn't realize you had been married before Tom - and married after your father died. I did the same. For me, it was not a mistake but it was absolutely a response to losing my father and expecting my spouse to take that place. I hope to talk about that a bit in a future marriage post.
Congratulations on 19 years! It's not easy and it does take constant work - even when we admire, respect, and are well suited with our beloved. And this, too, is something we don't talk about enough. We tend to think of marriage as a destination that is reached at the wedding and it's blue skies from there. In reality, it's one heck of a journey! Arduous and amazing, frustrating and fulfilling, and so much more.
Like this one ❤️ my god friend 🥰. I have Been Marrid with my wife for 35 years now and i am thankfull for evry day 🥰💐❤️
Not easy to Explain , but i maybe remember to tell her almost evry day that i Love her and just that i am thankfull for her evry day and do my best inn my part of this M and dont Expekt to Munch b 😁.
Give more than you exp b. 🥰🤩😉
It is good to have A partner ❤️🥰 , but its possible to have a good life with good friends and family 🥰
Sorry for my bad writing 🇳🇴, but hope you understand 😆
Congratulations on 35 years, old friend! You have always been a kind, gentle, and patient man and I am sure this comes through in your marriage. You also had done a bit of exploring in the world (which is how we met) and so you were clear about what you wanted and needed, as well as who you were and what you brought to the relationship.
Don’t expect too much. Be happy. Give more than you expect. = All great advice!! 🧡🔆
My first marriage was a disaster, but I have two beautiful children because of it. After my divorce, I was a bit despondent. I remember talking to God one morning--I was 32 and felt like used goods. Who would want me? And would I want someone who also had “baggage?” I asked God to send me someone who would serve Him alongside me. I know that sounds like a crazy prayer, but I asked and He delivered.
Mike and I have been married 14 years. We had similar experiences in our first marriages, so we both understood the same hurt. His personality is very different from mine, but enjoy doing some of the same things. We have to step back and regroup sometimes when we don’t seem to be on the same page, but I think what makes us work is that we understand what a gift this relationship is and we are thankful for each other. It makes it easier to get over the small stuff.
That’s wonderful, Holly. I had a sense that Mike was your second marriage but appreciate you sharing the details. And yes, your two children make your first marriage a success, even if it didn’t have the outcome you hoped for. Even divorce can be a success. You probably learned much about yourself during those years that still serves you well. And perhaps made you a better mother.
Tell me, how old were you when you married the first time? Looking back, do you think it would’ve helped if you were older?
Turns out I don't live well with others.
Which is fine because I enjoy living by myself.
I've been blessed with more than my share of girlfriends over my life and only once considered marrying. And that didn't work out anyway, to my good fortune as well as hers.
Thanks for responding, Mark. You actually touch on something I want to talk about in another post in this series. Which is, do you have to live with your spouse? Seems unconventional (even unimaginable) to many but for me, it makes perfect sense. Many couples live in separate bedrooms, why not separate homes? The other part of this (that I will explore more as well) is the need for our solitude. As someone who REALLY enjoys my own space (probably even requires it like you), I'm not interested in a relationship where we are always together and doing the same things. Kahil Gibran talks about there being spaces in the relationship, like two trees growing in the forest, neither in the other's shadow. And Rilke talks about protecting each other's solitude. And this is why I started this conversation talking about the myth of having an "other half", of someone else making us whole. I think two whole, healthy, mature people can be married without necessarily living together.
What do you think of that idea?
I’m a cynical romantic (a romantic cynic?) who believes in love at first sight...while also believing that idea of soulmates is a dangerous and damaging concept. The power of timing and circumstance and chemistry is really what it all comes down to. I could have seen myself in multiple marriage trajectories and most would have turned out pretty fine. The one I’m in (for 15 years) is just the path that happened to make sense to both of us at that time. Yes, there’s magic involved, but also mostly...reality?
I am generally against anyone getting married young--it’s informed by my own experience in an abusive relationship from age 19-21. We were almost engaged and it would have been a terrible mistake. Instead, I waited until the “old” (haha) age of 28 to tie the knot, and looking back at my mindset at age 20 I think it’s impossible to know if you’re making a wise decision or not. However, I recognize that not everyone has the same opinion as I do and I try not to be judgmental about younger marriages. Many do last, but they should be viewed as the exception rather than something to aspire to.
Love is the best thing in the world and I’m confident I’ll continue to have tons of it--romantic and otherwise--until my dying day. But my past experiences remind me (quite often, actually) what it felt like to not have that, and I hope that I’m sensitive to a multitude of perspectives.
Thanks for posing such an engaging topic!
Thank you so much for all your thoughts here, Ashleigh! Your first speaks to how, I believe, there is not just ONE person out there for each of us. And the idea of ONE actually can harm us in many ways. And this intersects with marriage at a young age / waiting to marry. To think at 18 or 19 or even 23 that the person we love is the perfect one and only match for us - the one we were "meant" to be with.... Well, they may be the right person FOR THAT TIME, but for the rest of our lives? Likely no. But you can bet I felt that way at that age with my first love. And again at 25 when I did marry. That marriage was a success, even if it did only last 7 years, but precisely b/c we were committed to the best for each other so when the time came to part - as hard as it was - we knew it was for the best. And this is something I'll talk about more later (I think). We all go through a LOT of changes in our lives. I think it's pretty rare to find that person with whom you can stay together even as you both change at different times in different ways - ESPECIALLY if you marry when you're basically still a kid. As you say, it's more the exception than the rule, especially today. All of which is to highlight what is mythology that doesn't serve us vs acknowledging reality (the odds, the statistics) and using that to help us make our best choices. And of course, knowing oneself, what we actually need for our particular personality vs what the culture deems optimal.
Good discussion points!!
Jan, I love that you describe your seven-year marriage a success! We too often are told that there is some sort of "end goal" and if we don't make it then we've failed. That is just not the case! We need more examples like yours of successful marriages that have operated differently. Think of how many people would feel better about themselves and their choices if they could embrace your way of thinking instead of feeling stuck in our society's framework about marriage.
I agree, we go through so many changes in life and finding the person who will be a good fit for you for two years, much less twenty or more, is incredibly challenging! We don't talk about how hard it is to CHOOSE to stay together, each and every day, year over year. I certainly think you should explore this topic more. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you, Ashleigh! I appreciate your solidarity in this thought. Perhaps we just need to talk about this more in order to change the cultural paradigm. And yes, we do NOT talk about marriage enough! I will definitely explore this in future posts and look forward to your input!
Thanks for writing this! I actually learned in therapy recently that i haven’t been looking for a friend or partner all along, I’ve been looking for a parent/caregiver/older sibling (due to not having been taken care of much as a kid). Your essay is a good reminder that eventually I need to learn to take care of myself instead of finding that role in others.
Ah Cherie, I hope you know that you're not alone in this. What sets you apart is that NOW you know and now you can make better choices. I applaud you for the inner work you're doing. Old patterns are hard to change, especially when they were formed from a deficit. And that's why therapy is so helpful. Plus affirmations such as this. Thank you so much for sharing.
Thank you for another wonderful article. You have a darn good voice!
Martha and I have been married for 47 years. When I met her, she was this crazy, wild person that was so different than me, but I knew from day one that she had a heart of gold. I knew I was in very good hands. We were as different as night and day, but we really loved the difference. If people asked us our opinions on just about anything, I'd naturally pick "A" while Martha naturally picked "B", but that helped us broaden our perspectives because we respected what the other felt and believed. Today, we both now naturally answer "AB" in our opinions.
Also, we were so lucky in that my flaws were not that big of a deal to Martha and the same with her flaws for me. We all carry around an array of flaws, so our attitudes made it very easy to cut each other lots of slack with flaws that might have driven others up the wall.
oh Gary, thank you so much for your note! You two are truly role models for all of us. Your respect, admiration, and support of each others is so obvious. Just as important as being able to roll past each other's flaws is how you have been able to grow and evolve. Sometimes together (like dancing), sometimes apart (Martha's recent schooling), but always with the love that wants the best for the other and that, in turn, supports you both. I also love that this growth and acceptance now means you answer AB. A wonderful balance indeed!
Hugs to you both! xo