Both, yes. Within one’s family is discussed in the NYTimes piece but I think this role is just as important among friends. Does this description ring true for you?
Great column, Jan. Ties together a lot of threads!
Kin-keeping used to be a shared joy/task? As you pointed out, Jan, it is now something we have to VALUE (somehow!), consciously work on, co-create in a shared way.
David Brooks was one of the first really (White) mainstream people I saw to question nuclear family model. He mentions that kinship groups were traditionally 70 or so people. Now we have to do tremendous emotional lifting to recreate even a fraction of these groups—it takes 200 hours of time spent together to make a new friend. Or--if we are wealthy enough-- we pay for the physical/societal care and support (health, education, etc) that kinship used to provide, which is transactional and lacks the same emotional dynamics?
I've questioned the nuclear family model for decades. What really strikes me here though is the "200 hours of time spent together to make a new friend." It's not just the time, it's the work. 200 hours of conversation. Something in me is tired of talking so much. But give me a reason to be together, something that doesn't require me having to be witty, talkative, or even intelligent. I've known you and Bob for almost 2 decades. Acquaintances. Then you drive through the town where I'm living and Zap! That sealed it for me. We may continue to see each other irregularly but I hope you know you are very certainly a friend. Well short of 200 hours! Another friend, well short of 200 hours, is returning from an overseas trip in a few weeks and I said I'd pick her up. Her car is, after all, residing at our place during her trip. Sure, why not, we have the space. We are so programed into some cultural idea of worthiness or transactional friendship or simply not wanting to bother others that it took several texts to convince her 1) it was okay to leave her car at our place, and then most recently 2) I really would pick her up - I offered, she didn't ask. To me, this is the perfect kind of way to build relationships - actually being there for others - that is so much stronger, more fundamental, than 200 hours of talking. I'm not sure if I'm articulating this clearly... Do you know what I mean? This is the kind of stuff that 70 (or so) people in kinship groups naturally did for each other. It's the idea of community.
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. And you are right, it's not about talking, it's about sharing time and experiences together (can be in a group too), which sometimes includes talking. Cumulative... and just unfolds in its own way, at its own pace?
I think of the trading desk I was on for 7 1/2 years--a circle. Seven people--five including myself were there all 7 1/2 years, a couple of others changed. But there was kinship, even with the guy I didn't like and who didn't like me. We made it work anyway. And then I left and that kinship was over for me (though I still talk to one person occasionally, it's not the same as day-in, day-out). So I guess the membership of one's kinship group can change? I remember my grandmother once saying "If you compare your address book every 10 years, you will be amazed at how much it's changed."
Getting to know Tulsa from you--and you more from seeing you in Tulsa--was really special, Jan. Tulsa was on the map, not too far off our route, I had your number (Lesson there too? "Weak connection" or even kinship possibilities can't happen now without cell numbers--haha!). But in the end, that happened because we're both curious and slightly-above-average risk-takers... Love that!! Spontaneity is the spice of life. Bob and I will always be grateful to you for that experience. And now here we both are, back where we started.... For now! ;)
I think every family must have at least one kin keeper to hold things together. I am thinking about Cheryl Strayed’s book Wild, where she describes how her mother kept their family together, but after her mother died, Cheryl tried to fill her mother’s role, but felt she failed.
But the ones who seem to do it all their lives also seem to thrive on it. I guess we are all put together differently. We all do things that others see us do, and cannot understand how it even possible for us to do those things. And vice versa!
I get a lot of responses to some of my aid workers stories where people comment about how noble and brave I must be, and it makes me giggle, in an embarrassed way. I never felt I was brave or noble. I just had a job to do, I did it, and maybe I had a talent for it, because I thrived doing it. Whenever I talked to my wife’s grandmother who had to take care of four kids and a farm during WWII after grandpa was drafted and sent to the war in Europe, she always demurred and said she just did what was needed, which was to keep her family together during a time of great uncertainty and she continued using those skills until she died. Somehow she was the glue that held everyone together and she never saw it as a distinct something; it’s just what she did and it gave her life meaning.
My avatar picture is of my Aussie Shepherd who has an amazing instinct for organizing groups of sheep, people, or whatever into a cohesive, coherent group. Maybe there is a similar trait in some of us that causes people to be drawn into our orbit and form a kinship, team, or similar kinds of groupings.
Anytime you compare us to dogs, you’ll get a like from me! 😄 Yes, some of us are herders. And most of us are just doing what we do, acting according to our nature.
This is a very thoughtful post. I obviously haven't been a model for this given my situation but I've been actively trying to acknowledge my family as much as I can. It makes such a difference to them and it's never ever too late to say thank you.
Jan- I love the terminology of "kinkeepers." Definitely something that needs to be used in the day-to-day vernacular. Where I grew up, if one doesn't know one's family, second cousins, extended cousins, and even all the way to 5-7 generations prior--they are considered "lost." There's even a specific word used to describe this condition. I appreciate this read and its thought-building, especially on this topic. Hope you're doing well this week, Jan! (And kinkeeping as always :)
Thanks, Thalia. I think you definitely had the benefit of a culture that honors ancestors and celebrates community. In America, we emphasize “independence “ too much and shun help as a sign of weakness. This has led to a lot of problems. There are so many benefits to the connectedness you describe, not the least of which is understanding one’s self as part of something bigger. Thank you for responding!
Did you mean kinkeeping within one's family or friend group ?
Both, yes. Within one’s family is discussed in the NYTimes piece but I think this role is just as important among friends. Does this description ring true for you?
Great column, Jan. Ties together a lot of threads!
Kin-keeping used to be a shared joy/task? As you pointed out, Jan, it is now something we have to VALUE (somehow!), consciously work on, co-create in a shared way.
David Brooks was one of the first really (White) mainstream people I saw to question nuclear family model. He mentions that kinship groups were traditionally 70 or so people. Now we have to do tremendous emotional lifting to recreate even a fraction of these groups—it takes 200 hours of time spent together to make a new friend. Or--if we are wealthy enough-- we pay for the physical/societal care and support (health, education, etc) that kinship used to provide, which is transactional and lacks the same emotional dynamics?
"David Brooks: The Nuclear Family Was a Mistake"
https://youtu.be/sd9d5z7idyQ?feature=shared
How do we get back to the kinship group norm, when capitalism doesn't support it?
Liz, thank you so much for posting this reply!
I've questioned the nuclear family model for decades. What really strikes me here though is the "200 hours of time spent together to make a new friend." It's not just the time, it's the work. 200 hours of conversation. Something in me is tired of talking so much. But give me a reason to be together, something that doesn't require me having to be witty, talkative, or even intelligent. I've known you and Bob for almost 2 decades. Acquaintances. Then you drive through the town where I'm living and Zap! That sealed it for me. We may continue to see each other irregularly but I hope you know you are very certainly a friend. Well short of 200 hours! Another friend, well short of 200 hours, is returning from an overseas trip in a few weeks and I said I'd pick her up. Her car is, after all, residing at our place during her trip. Sure, why not, we have the space. We are so programed into some cultural idea of worthiness or transactional friendship or simply not wanting to bother others that it took several texts to convince her 1) it was okay to leave her car at our place, and then most recently 2) I really would pick her up - I offered, she didn't ask. To me, this is the perfect kind of way to build relationships - actually being there for others - that is so much stronger, more fundamental, than 200 hours of talking. I'm not sure if I'm articulating this clearly... Do you know what I mean? This is the kind of stuff that 70 (or so) people in kinship groups naturally did for each other. It's the idea of community.
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. And you are right, it's not about talking, it's about sharing time and experiences together (can be in a group too), which sometimes includes talking. Cumulative... and just unfolds in its own way, at its own pace?
I think of the trading desk I was on for 7 1/2 years--a circle. Seven people--five including myself were there all 7 1/2 years, a couple of others changed. But there was kinship, even with the guy I didn't like and who didn't like me. We made it work anyway. And then I left and that kinship was over for me (though I still talk to one person occasionally, it's not the same as day-in, day-out). So I guess the membership of one's kinship group can change? I remember my grandmother once saying "If you compare your address book every 10 years, you will be amazed at how much it's changed."
Getting to know Tulsa from you--and you more from seeing you in Tulsa--was really special, Jan. Tulsa was on the map, not too far off our route, I had your number (Lesson there too? "Weak connection" or even kinship possibilities can't happen now without cell numbers--haha!). But in the end, that happened because we're both curious and slightly-above-average risk-takers... Love that!! Spontaneity is the spice of life. Bob and I will always be grateful to you for that experience. And now here we both are, back where we started.... For now! ;)
Curiosity yes!
I think every family must have at least one kin keeper to hold things together. I am thinking about Cheryl Strayed’s book Wild, where she describes how her mother kept their family together, but after her mother died, Cheryl tried to fill her mother’s role, but felt she failed.
I think you're right. I played that role for a long time in my family after my mom died and it finally became exhausting.
But the ones who seem to do it all their lives also seem to thrive on it. I guess we are all put together differently. We all do things that others see us do, and cannot understand how it even possible for us to do those things. And vice versa!
I get a lot of responses to some of my aid workers stories where people comment about how noble and brave I must be, and it makes me giggle, in an embarrassed way. I never felt I was brave or noble. I just had a job to do, I did it, and maybe I had a talent for it, because I thrived doing it. Whenever I talked to my wife’s grandmother who had to take care of four kids and a farm during WWII after grandpa was drafted and sent to the war in Europe, she always demurred and said she just did what was needed, which was to keep her family together during a time of great uncertainty and she continued using those skills until she died. Somehow she was the glue that held everyone together and she never saw it as a distinct something; it’s just what she did and it gave her life meaning.
My avatar picture is of my Aussie Shepherd who has an amazing instinct for organizing groups of sheep, people, or whatever into a cohesive, coherent group. Maybe there is a similar trait in some of us that causes people to be drawn into our orbit and form a kinship, team, or similar kinds of groupings.
Anytime you compare us to dogs, you’ll get a like from me! 😄 Yes, some of us are herders. And most of us are just doing what we do, acting according to our nature.
This is a very thoughtful post. I obviously haven't been a model for this given my situation but I've been actively trying to acknowledge my family as much as I can. It makes such a difference to them and it's never ever too late to say thank you.
Any acknowledgment can mean a LOT.
Jan- I love the terminology of "kinkeepers." Definitely something that needs to be used in the day-to-day vernacular. Where I grew up, if one doesn't know one's family, second cousins, extended cousins, and even all the way to 5-7 generations prior--they are considered "lost." There's even a specific word used to describe this condition. I appreciate this read and its thought-building, especially on this topic. Hope you're doing well this week, Jan! (And kinkeeping as always :)
Thanks, Thalia. I think you definitely had the benefit of a culture that honors ancestors and celebrates community. In America, we emphasize “independence “ too much and shun help as a sign of weakness. This has led to a lot of problems. There are so many benefits to the connectedness you describe, not the least of which is understanding one’s self as part of something bigger. Thank you for responding!
Jan, check your direct messages. I love you a note about iPhones.
SAY IT LOUDER!!
THREE CHEERS FOR KINKEEPERS!!! :)